I'm just gonna say: The YouTube recommendation algorithm is FAR more harmful than any amount of channels full of hate speech. Optimizing for engagement is always going to give priority to these sorts of things. Engagement is a toxic metric.

@iarna this is the elephant in the room everyone ignores...the root of the problem. The hyper-connectedness of the world and centralization of services amplifies the effect, but without engagement driven algorithms the problems of divisiveness and hate would be much less severe.

Big Internet is trying to do moderation in futility. Toxic speech is merely the symptom. Algorithms that reinforce biases are the disease and that fact is being largely ignored.

@msh @iarna
I think part of the problem is human nature. Centralized services with a profit motive make it worse. But I still have the impulse to keep checking my fediverse accounts for interesting activity. I picked good people to follow, so I don't think I'm going to get into trouble. But someone that didn't already have pretty leftish views coming to the fediverse might find a lot of the wrong reinforcement they would get on YT.

@mike @iarna human nature is a factor, but the algorithms are tuned to maximally exploit that nature.

You "picked good people to follow". We need social media to be driven by that. Algorithms pick good METRICS to follow and shove content in your face. I think most people seek out good people rather than deliberately seeking things that upset them, but they *react* strongly when presented with unsolicited negativity hence good metrics.

People driven content counteracts that feedback loop.

@msh @iarna
Maybe I'm not giving kids enough credit, but I fear that a teenager - especially but not only a cishet white teenager - entering the fediverse could still be influenced just by stumbling across bigoted content early on. Maybe that's no different from the risks of meeting bigots at their high school or similar. But to me it seems intuitive that carefully crafted misinformation can circulate more quickly on the fediverse than through person to person chat.

@mike @msh "no curation" can be worse than "quality human curation" certainly, but I would argue it's still better than "algorithmic engagement maximizing curation". Engagement maximization leads to things like "you watched a video game trailer, would you like to watch this crypto-fascist-conspiracy-video?"

@iarna and to add insult to injury you can go figure what happens to videos that cater to people like me who don't engage in comments and may forget liking.

Basically have to discover the channels elsewhere.

That's why I thank the EU every day for giving me the power to turn it off ☺

@iarna unless you're listening to classic rock, then the algorithm creating suggestions is awesome.

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