@BunnyHearted because they make the laws... U_U
@kogomi For now! 🏴
@BunnyHearted YES LET'S BURN DOWN THE SYSTEM
@BunnyHearted I LOVE IT!
I mean, the instinct of most people is "well of course, stealing is bad", and I think most people agree with that. I think the real question that should be asked is about property and power. Stealing should probably be illegal, but on the other hand society should not be such that a person feels they need to steal.
In other words, the real issue is that that there are poor people, not that stealing is illegal.
We then have the question as to what how to get from one state of affairs to the other. We have people who has more than they will ever need, and how too you reallocate those resources without stealing? Well, society in general and government specifically decides what is stealing, which brings us right back to what someone else replied, suggesting that it's the people with money who decides the laws.
And wouldn't you know it. Countries where money plays less of a role in politics tend to be the places where people have less need to steal to support themselves.
I have had various different political leanings over the years, and right now I'm not sure where I stand, but I know one thing, if a society accepts that some people have so little they feel they need to steal, that system is broken and its proponents should not be allowed to have power.
@loke @tpfto @kogomi I remember seeing stats that showed how billionaires became something like 1.9 trillion dollars richer in the pandemic (as of a couple of months ago), and working people lost ~1.7 trillion.
I wonder where that 1.7 trillion went, and if these numbers are somehow connected 🤔. Hmm hmmmm.
@loke @BunnyHearted @kogomi sure, you could see it as a matter of terminology. The methods of recourse available to common folk are rendered "illegal" by whoever's writing the laws, but the methods that are only available to, and can only be used by the upper crust are just "business" and "economy".
Asking whether it "counts" as theft in some case or another can be valuable when engaging with folks who think "stealing is always wrong" (a concept that only makes sense in the context of certain constructs, like private property), but I don't wanna get too hung up here. I want all ppl to eat
Instead I wanted to highlight that I, as you said, the important thing is that people are given the basic needs for sustenance, so that they they don't need to worry about where to sleep, or where their next meal will come from.
In my opinion, there are a set of things that should be provided to everybody, no questions asked:
Transportation (free public transport)
Communication (some kind of mobile device perhaps)
I mention these things specifically because they are things that are needed to not only survive, but also what is needed to bring yourself out of whatever hole you find yourself in. You need education to, well, educate yourself so as to be able to find a job more easily. You need transportation to be able to go to a job interview. You need communication in order to participate in a society that is becoming more and more online.
Many countries do provide these things to some extent, ant it's absolutely stunning to me that there are people who disagree with this very basic premise.
Oh, and one more thing: Unless you have excess money left after paying for the bare minimum, you should not be taxed. In other words, the cutoff for where you have o pay income tax should be at the level where you can sustain yourself.
This last part of where Sweden fails. They take income tax from you even if you barely have enough to survive.
literally tho lmao
@baronnarcveldt Like come on I don't even want that much of it. Will they even notice?
@BunnyHearted and they make their money stealing the plusvue from the worker
@BunnyHearted As the German government's drug commissioner once said so beautifully about cannabis:
"It is illegal because it is forbidden...".
@tricia and forbidden because it's illegal owo
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